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Ghostbusters Nihon

The Team


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Commentary:

Reply BaldDumboRat, October 1st, 2009, 7:44 pm

Well, this isn't finished but I wanted to tease everyone with the line art of the team. I'm working on the color now.

You'll just have to wait until I'm done before you get to see who's who, but for now enjoy the concept line-art of Ghostbusters Nihon!

And holyshititsagirl D:

And yes. I know. I suck at drawing weapons and electronics. >_<;

Edit: I sincerely want to apologize to Zanoh for not getting permission to post this up. I realize I actually messed up pre-tty damn bad on the proton guns. I actually haven't seen Ghostbusters in a long time, and I used the wrong picture for reference. Now that I have actually gone back and watched the movies again (and analyzed) I understand that I seriously got the wrong idea. Even I think these suck, now that I've had time to evaluate, and I understand the importance of what they need to look like. So... I promise that in the future, I'll look directly at the source, rather than relying on pictures I found on the internet. I have always been one to study something and try to be true to it, so I shouldn't be lax in doing it here.
Sorry.

; x;

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Discussion:

Reply BaldDumboRat, October 1st, 2009, 8:01 pm

True XD

Reply SirenMarina, October 1st, 2009, 8:20 pm

MINE! Glasses.
that ass is Mine!

Reply Zanoh, October 1st, 2009, 11:21 pm

Ari...ga....to? 0.0?

Reply CartoonistWill, October 4th, 2009, 1:03 am

Wow, weird looking cheesy proton guns. Easier to draw than the real original designs though, I guess. Oh, it's conceptual? That's good. I wonder what design you'll end up on. The line art of the characters looks very good. While on the job, will they be wearing flight suits?

Reply CartoonistWill, October 4th, 2009, 1:16 am

By the way, loving the new page layout.

Reply BaldDumboRat, October 4th, 2009, 4:36 am

Thanks (about the layout)

I actually got a scolding from Zanoh about the guns XD I was looking at a comic book cover that apparently drew them totally different. o___o;; Hopefully I'll get the design better looking the next time around that I draw them. ehehe... Weapons are hard for me, but I can get the hang of it if I draw them enough.

And yeah, they will be wearing the suits on the job. I drew this up just to show they are Japanese students, gave the 'Nihon' feel to them. ^^

Reply CartoonistWill, October 4th, 2009, 12:18 pm

Another Ghostbuster comic cover with incorrectly drawn proton guns? I'd like to see that though.

Cool. Yeah, I figured you were probably just showing concept art of the characters. But, I won't lie. I'm rather relieved those retro 1940-50's style sci-fi space guns aren't the final design, ha ha. But I apologize if I was too harsh in my comment of them being cheesy or just now.

Weapons are hard for me to draw too. As a matter of fact, I HATE drawing the proton pack and gun. So much freaking detail!! For the 7 pages and other material I've drawn of them in my comic I've been working on simplifying them while still having the basic feel and look of the movie proton guns and packs. I added in a little bit of influence from the Real GB cartoon (yellow hose mostly), but everything else is kept close to the movies.

I was reading my Ghostbusters Tokyopop manga I bought (have you guys seen it? Probably have, I'm sure). I found out that the guns and packs are mostly just big blacked-out blocks and silhouettes on their backs. There is only detail mostly in close ups, and even then the details aren't 100% perfect (which is mostly fine with me) and comprises many random wires and junk that seem made-up and put on their only for detail sake. I even found a page in which Ray's gun is attached to the wrong side of the pack. This only proves that an artist can get away with a lot more than he realizes!

Anyway, do you guys need any help in understanding the equipment or reference photos? I've learned a lot I didn't know in the past couple of years doing my web-comic, despite it's little progress. I had a hard time finding information since GB's fan base is smaller than Star Trek and etc. With Star Trek you can buy whole encyclopedias that give excruciating detail of each and every floor and room on each and every star ship, how the heck the pseudo science works, as well as the Klingon language. Not so with GB, which I guess makes it feel less dorky too though. Definitely less is required to love and understand Ghostbusters.

Anyway, Zanoh (or both of you), what's your opinion on the proton pack's power source? I used to think it was only nuclear powered but then someone brought it to my attention that it is more because that would be perpetual energy which hasn't been invented yet. Turns out that the cyan colored vertical bar on the upper left side of the pack is a power cell meter that measures the amount of electricity in the battery. This battery is what powers the nuclear particle accelerator supposedly around the nuclear (plutonium?) cylinder bars (as seen in the game only) which is what produces the particles that are filtered through the Negative Ion filter and fed into the gun. This is apparently why the RGB cartoon forced the Ghostbusters to charge their packs and also makes sense as a deleted scene in the first movie showed Egon charging the packs on a wall outlet and the chargers sparking and melting (I have copies of the original scripts; they're not hard to find online).

GBfans.com has an exhaustive amount of fan made props and official Hollywood blue prints for the equipment, by the way, which should prove useful if you need reference material. Even the Ecto-mobile! My advice is too keep things simple enough when possible. I couldn't believe the number of shortcuts the artists of the Tokyopop Ghostbusters took to do so and I never noticed. I'd recommend it, it's a good read. IDW has also put out a GB comic mini-series recently, and are working on two more mini-series now.

Anyway, with all this GB stuff coming out and the DVD releases of RGB and ExGB complete series and rereleases of the original RGB toys, I feel like it's my childhood in the 80's all over again... It's crazy.

Reply BaldDumboRat, October 4th, 2009, 2:10 pm

Oh jeeze, another horribly American drawn 'manga' by Tokyopop... I hope I progress past that level of looking so blatently American. For some reason a lot of Amerimanga is drawn with such thick lines and everything looks sharp. Japanese tend to draw with elegant lines and curves but the american ones tend to stick out like sore thumbs. I'm hoping I'll look authentic enough some day, because I dread being just 'another American' n the tokyopop collection. I'm going to be trying for 7 Seas, at least they TRY to publish authentic looking works. Tokyopop has just been terrible lately... Though, I just looked up Michael Shelfer, the artist, and it looks like 7 Seas published something of his as well. Ohhh boy...
I don't want to be another artist who just slacks and 'gets away with things' because it's completely un-japanese. I know I'm not Japanese, but I've studied it since I was 12, I partially speak it, I have over 1k worth of manga, I've been learning how to cook Japanese dishes, I've studied the culture, and I've studied what it is about Manga that makes it Manga. The american mistake is simply this: They think it's an art style. It's not. Manga contains at least 8 different techniques not used in American comics, each technique boosts something VERY important that makes manga so enthralling to read. Audience participation. Close ups of expressions, sets of moods by simply looking at the things around the character and not just the character, motion lines that don't just show a character moving, but sometimes show just to pull you in to an action or emotion, many uses of silent frames that are there to simply help the reader FEEL for the moment, the fact that it's so free to be whatever it wants to be story-wise... There's more but I currently can't remember off the top of my head.

And oh dear lord, Michael Shelfer drew one of them in a dress for no coherent reason except what seems to be a 'cute' way to say "hey look I drew a dress joke, can I be a manga artist now?" Sorry I'm complaining so much, but you have no idea how offended I've become by Tokyopop. There are so many wonderful artists out there who are american who havn't been published or brought to light, but the people Tokyopop DO publish are tainting the name of american made manga so badly that it's just made me sick. And the fact that this guy claiming to be a manga artist is 'getting away' with so much is inexcusable. That's WHY it doesn't look like a Japanese manga. (that and the horribly sharp and thick lines...) I just really don't like the slapped on style that people seem to think makes Manga...
Because of this Tokyopop version, I think I'll be striving even harder to steer clear away from it. I hope to make something new, engaging, and authentic feeling, and I hope that Zanoh will write a script to match up with it... So far the planning has shown that the plot will be more unique and will definately have that Japanese intensity we all know and love.

Sorry about the long rant, it's a topic that often gets me going. That, and those shitty american "Draw Manga" books that make me want to puke chunks. They are just people jumping onto a fad, and to see people with such terrible art being published makes me feel pretty hopeless for this society.

ZANOH! HURRY UP AND WRITE THE SCRIPT! I'M IN A DETERMINED MOOD TO DRAW THIS!! GARRRRRR!

(and I'll look up references more often now, thanks for the tips)
(Ò &#1044;Ó)9"

Reply CartoonistWill, October 5th, 2009, 7:15 pm

The crappy art makes you feel hopeless for society? Wow, and we haven't even gotten into politics or religion yet, lol.

Anyway, I completely agree that it's not manga at all. Obviously Tokyopop said, "Hey, manga is really popular right now and makes loads of filthy money. And so do big name movie franchises. We want to do a Ghostbusters and Star Trek manga, but instead of hiring manga artists, let's use our current talent and force them to draw things they haven't mastered." So, you know, don't be harsh on those guys, they're just getting paid to do what they love. Do Amerimanga comics? Nah, to do artwork! You've got to admit that the Ghostbusters Tokyopop comic has awesome artwork, despite the fact they erroneously call it manga. I was fine with the art style because I knew it wasn't REAL manga coming into the book. But I love Ghostbusters and I like black and white comics (I'm big on the American 1980's underground indie comics movement; things like TMNT, The Tick, Sam and Max, and Usagi Yojimbo) By the way, manga and anime are art styles and have many different sub-styles.
However you're right that it's more than an art style in that it also combines it with a unique story telling style. You haven't seen it yet, but American comics also use those things which you list sometimes - but usually only the comics for older readers, never the kiddies. I've read a few American comics that contain some of those elements, some made in the 1980's by amateur underground indie cartoonists. It's just that most employers aren't cartoonists or storytellers and maybe they sometimes don't understand and frown upon such talents. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things now and making crap up.

The reason why my friend Michael drew the Ghostbusters in dresses is because the script written by someone else and handed to him to do contained that in the story. He had nothing to do with it. Leave off the slave labor a little, k? I have no idea what he'd write if he got paid to write.

Anyway, yeah. I used to be really big into Japanese, but then I realized I was living a lie and being obsessive, so I started again to being an American first and anime/manga enthusiast second. Remembering I'm not Japanese. That's also why I reverted back to using Western style cartooning instead of trying to learn the manga/anime art styles. Also, I understand and can do those storytelling styles you mentioned, but I only do them when the genre suits that kind of storytelling. Anyway, I've had at least one person complain bitterly that my art looked like Amerimanga despite the fact that I'm trying to get back to Western. I understand their hatred as I too hate those crappy Draw Manga books that contain nothing that looks like true Manga/Anime in it (obviously Amerimanga style), but I could have done without the hurtful words from that person. :-)

Anyway, whatever publisher you do go with, I think you should also put a high focus on copyright ownership. Don't go with a publisher that will own your work and even have the ability to replace you or tell you that you can't do your own stories how you want to do them. I'm interested in Dark Horse's creator owned line that allows people to keep their copyright, myself. Good examples of people who were forced to give up their ownership include the creators of Superman and Ghost Rider. I've personally spoken to the creator of Ghost Rider. He hasn't seen a dime for decades. He's an old man with a hearing aid now and I had to speak up while he leaned toward me with his hand by his ear. Nice guy. Kind of bitter about Marvel stealing his creation though. But I would be too.

Anyway, I can tell you have a passion for your art and work, and I'm excited to see how you can do the Japanese art AND story telling styles true justice with this upcoming series.

As a conclusion, I want to make sure you realize I hate Amerimanga too. I hate calling anything done outside of Japan by non-Japanese people "manga" or "anime," although I tip my hat to anyone who can fake it properly.

Reply BaldDumboRat, October 6th, 2009, 7:16 am

Well, I can whole heartedly understand if he's drawing from a script. (since I'm going to be doing that myself XD)
Sorry about my long rant, it's just something that urks me. I'm just thankful Tokyopop GB isn't anything like Mail Order Ninja *shudders uncontrollably*
I was obsessive myself when I was younger, dreamed of living there and learning the language, finding a publisher there, then somehow publish in America from Japan with a translation, etc, etc... But.. Yeah that was pretty ridiculous. Now, I just highly admire the culture and want to know more and more about it. The food is healthy and tastes great, so I learn to make it. The customs are very intriguing, so I learn more about them.
I've never had anyone complain about my style yet, though I'm sure one day I'll get some heavy critique. I'm actually shocked I havn't yet, but that's probably because I'm not a very well known or popular artist. Don't know if I ever will be, to be honest, but that's ok. I may complain about it, but I never insult a person's art to their face, I believe in constructive criticism and helpful tips. Even the worst of comic makers and artist can be sure to receive advice from me if I see potential in them.

And I do realize that some American comics have been using some of those techniques a little more frequently, because they work. But there's no denying that many of these techniques were derived from or inspired by the techniques used in manga. All the way back to that genius, Tezuka. (I have a small Tezuka collection right now, in fact X3)

My big problem with these 'combine two popular things to make something awesome' techniques that Tokyo pop and some other companies have been trying to utilize lately is that it just doesn't work. The problem is that they think if they draw manga, the masses of manga fans will buy it. But this is hardly true, they more than likely WONT buy it because it's simply NOT the same at all! They might hook a few curious onlookers and fans, but they definitely wont hit the same fanbase. These comics tend to stay in the kids comic section, away from the gradually growing rows of manga in the book stores. And there's a reason for it. It just wont sell the same way, no matter what title you throw on, no matter how popular the subject may be, if it doesn't follow the look and feel of the manga everyone loves, it wont sell. It's just another person trying to jump on the manga bandwagon and failing hard. Though, I do enjoy my Manga Hamlet books, those are some exceptions for me. In fact, there are some nice exceptions to the rule, especially when you look at 7 Seas and who they publish. One artist I admire is Shiei, she drew 'Aoi House' and 'Amazing Agent Luna', they look very nice and contain that spice that keeps them on the manga shelves where they belong. (I actually have a drawing of mine published in Aoi House vol. 3.. and it's signed by Shiei! EEE X3) Shiei also agreed to be a mentor for me at one point and gave me some pointers on what I needed to work on, and she helped me realize that you don't have to be serious to be a published artist. She talked just like I would, with cute emoticons, squeals, glomps, and even excitedly showed me a picture of her plushie collection!
Anyways, it is possible for people to get it right, but the ones that do have had to have been practicing it for a long long time. It's definitely not something for artists who have been drawing american cartoons to try and jump in to, it's just too much of a leap in style and it really does show.
It's the younger generation and those who have studied the style for a very long time who can actually pull it off, because they've had more time to make it feel natural.
I myself have been drawing 'manga' style since I was 9, starting with the infamous 'Pokemon' kick. Slowly I progressed from Pokemon, to Rumiko Takahashi, and finally on to find my own manga style that flowed nicely and naturally for me. Of course I do study other styles as well and I am quite good at mimicking other cartoons (for example, this: http://d.furaffinity.net/art/balddumborat/1246665338.balddumborat_styleereb.png ) But what flows from me as my natural style is manga. I think the problem is these amerimanga artists are doing it because it's 'cool' or 'interesting' but it's not really their natural style. You do best when you draw what comes to you. ^^

And of course I would go for copyright ownership! I've heard horror stories from Tokyopop's programs when they publish things from americans, especially the young naive teenagers! I've spoken with some people from Dark Horse, they say I have a while to go but my work looks promising. That lifted my hopes quite a bit, but I don't plan on publishing with them because I was a little disheartened when they said american comics could never be manga at all, nor would they ever categorize it as such. I know I'm not Japanese and never will be, but I hope to be regarded one day at least as someone who looks authentic enough that people might say "What? She's not Japanese?!" Definitely 7 Seas is on my top list of possible publishers right now. But I still got a ways to go before I'm good enough to even consider trying to publish! D:
Well, if this post didn't prove my passion any further then I don't know what will XD
Now excuse me while I obsessively take screenshots of Ghostbusters 2 o___o

And ZANOOOHHH HURRY UUUUUUUPPPPP I WANT TO DRAW SOME GHOOOOOSTIEEESSSSS!!! DX

Reply CartoonistWill, October 6th, 2009, 7:41 pm

Cool. That's all I say mostly, ha ha. :-)

I have to admit that I feel the same way about American made manga not being authentic manga. But, you know what? What is manga and anime, anyway? Is it the person that makes it that makes it authentic, or the art and story telling style? By the way, I'm also certain some Japanese manga artists may not use some of those story telling elements. But that's only a theory. I think it probably depends upon the genre and level of experience of the manga artist. No one is born with it! lol

Anyway, nice talking to you. There's certainly nothing wrong with really liking Japan or it's culture. Like you said, an artist needs to go with his strengths. And my strength is Western style, so that's what I'll do. :-) Can't wait for more GB:N! Take care!

Reply BaldDumboRat, October 7th, 2009, 2:07 am

Yes, look forward to better proton packs. >__<;;

Reply Tess, November 22nd, 2009, 6:25 am

I don't know why exactly, but the art reminds me of Alvin and the Chipmunks here! XD

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